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An interview with Jackie Kane - Actress and Playwright, whose well-received play This to This will be running at the Union Theatre until Saturday, June 17 th

Jen (Jackie Kane), Drew (Scott Ainslie), Peggy (Rosalie Jorda) in This to This

Image courtesy of London Ensemble

Conducted by Mary Couzens for EXTRA! EXTRA!

Mary: Hi Jackie. I'm really glad you decided to do this interview for EXTRA! EXTRA! It might be a good idea if we started off with a little basic background information. I'll let you choose what you'd like to tell us about here.

Jackie: Hello Mary, thanks for getting in touch to do an interview. It's my pleasure to answer your questions.

I'm from Glasgow, moved down to London 20 years ago with my boyfriend, Martin, when I decided to study fashion. My education in Scotland was basically art and language biased - maths wasn't my strong point! After leaving fashion college, I was offered a graphics job and I ended up staying in that job and having a career as a graphic/retail designer. The job was very fashion orientated and most of my work was for the big high street stores. There was a lovely lady who worked for one of the companies who had so many stories of her time as a stage manager and that gave me the acting bug and when my mum got ill (she's ok now), I decided that life was too short and began doing acting night classes after work. That's what I'd always wanted to do, but you know parents, ‘Get your education first'. They're right though, listen to them - finding acting work is tough, so have a skill to fall back on! Haha, now I'm sounding like my mum!

 

Drew (Scott Ainslie), Jen (Jackie Kane) in This to This

Photo Courtesy of London Ensemble

Mary: I'm intrigued with the way you are able to play a role in a play that you have also written Jackie. At what point during the course of rehearsals does the playwright become the actress? In other words, how much of a role do you take in how your play is performed? Are all the scenes agreed to before you begin rehearsals? How do you handle it if you're acting in the play and someone wants to cut or change one of the scenes you've written?

Jackie: To be honest, Mary, this time round it took a lot longer to put my acting head on. The play was written in about a month, during which time I got some filming too and had to go up to Birmingham for a week, and there was only two and a half weeks' rehearsal! I think I had my writing head on right till the dress rehearsal if I'm honest. I was so worried about the piece not hanging together as a whole, as I'd written the odd scene here and there - that's just how it came to me this time - and it was like a jigsaw puzzle that had to be joined in about four places just before we began rehearsals. I'd always written chronologically before. So there was a lot going on in my mind - which wasn't always fair on the other actors, I'll admit. I just had to trust that I'd be able to pull it out of the bag at the last minute in acting terms - I don't really get nervous on stage, so I sort of knew it'd be ok on the night. But it's not a place I like to be - I like security as much as any actor. I like to feel I've done my homework, know my lines very well etc - I did cut it fine this time and it was a relief when I felt myself ‘transported' into the character that afternoon.

Robert Wolstenholme, the director, was my saviour though. He's a big, calm, friendly bear (I call him the Viking as he's tall and blond with a Norsk-like name) and he never panicked. He never made us feel like we wouldn't get there. I didn't have to rewrite or reorder anything, but Bob did a great job cutting chunks of dialogue and keeping the sense. I did get a bit word blind at one point and he was great - we made the right choice of director on this play and we were all ‘singing from the same hymnsheet' as they say. I think we agreed on nearly everything. There were a few times when I'd shove a line back in, but it would be in reference to something that happened later and needed to be there and when Bob realised that he was fine. I'm not at all precious when it comes to writing. Actors have rhythms and I'm totally happy to work with that, as long as the sense is kept. Yes, actors should be able to cope with existing text, no matter how foreign words and phrases are to them personally, but if the writer's right there in the room with them and something sits better, then why not tailor it?

 

 

Mary: Did you start off as an actress, or a playwright first? And do you prefer one to the other, so far, or combining the two?

Jackie: I love acting first and foremost and that's what I gave up my design career to do. Acting, writing, art… it's all connected. Many people think you can't - or shouldn't - do more than one thing though, and if you do you're some sort of egotist or something. I think, how can you NOT employ all these skills if you have them? It doesn't mean you can't work with others, can't be part of a team, and it certainly doesn't mean your talents are watered down to nothing - it just means you have more ideas than some folk. I think life experience and picking up skills no matter how old you are is a wonderful thing. My dad taught me how to go on learning and that's one thing I'm grateful to him for. The writing thing happened when I'd not long started as an actress and I simply wanted a decent role for a small Scottish woman. I sat in Samuel French's for three months and read a load of stuff. I would like most of a play, but hate the end. Or I would find a great play, but the woman's role was your typical wife/mother. In a mood one day, I came home and started writing my own thing. Two days later I had my first play. So, I found I could write to a certain extent as well. I like both and I think they can easily be combined, but acting is what I enjoy most.

 

 

Mary: Jackie, your play, This to This is a true slice of life for contemporary audiences, intelligently written, in a straightforward, tell it like it is manner, while avoiding the stereotypical trappings, of, for lack of a better word, of traditional kitchen sink dramas. I admire the way presents some of the everyday problems of today that are generally glossed over or ignored, (as if they were yesterday's news), without necessarily offering solutions for them What inspired you to write This to This in the first place, and are any of its many scenarios inspired by your own real-life experiences?

Jackie: There is a line in my play, ‘There's enough wars going on in folk's daily lives without it being on the news everyday'. I was getting fed up with the continual stream of political plays. Fed up. I don't want to be constantly reminded and frightened every day. Life is relevant to the person living it and with all the debt ads, the neglect of pensioners, the lack of support for carers, I felt that the domestic situation was being ignored on stage. A few years back, domestic dramas were playing everywhere, but nowadays there is a lot of emphasis on ‘spectacle', on creating something new, something shocking, something visually awesome. That's great too, but it's all getting a bit Hollywood Blockbuster for me at the moment. Sometimes, to revert back to storytelling and character based writing is a relief. You can affect the audience if they are able to invest in the character. If they recognise themselves or others, you hook them in and there is a great transference of energy. It can be very simple. Yes, there are autobiographical elements - I think writers ‘leak' that in their work - how can it be helped? My gran and grampa had alzheimer's and I watched my mum struggle to cope with them, unaided for years, and I felt that it was a subject worth dealing with for how it affects the lives of the carers more than anything. But really, I'm just a thief and I pick up and remember stories and bits and bobs from others' lives. Generally, when a character comes to me, a story which fits them will also worm its way into my head - from who knows where…

 

 

Mary: It seemed to me that the casting and directing for This to This were very sensitively handled. For example, the fact that both you Jackie, and the actor who plays your husband, Scott Ainslie, play people who have moved to increasingly up-market (at least from a socio/political point of view) London, from Scotland, lends an additional sense of dislocation to the couple's circumstances in the midst of their problems. And the fact that they are both from the same place, also gives a feeling that if they were to separate, one, or both of them may wind up feeling a bit like a stranger in a strange land. In other words, I think the way that very natural situation infuses a story within a story in the context of your writing is a very strong feature of your writing. I also think it's really enlightening the way This to This manages to get so many implications across within the context of a seemingly, everyday storyline. It seems as though there's an almost instinctual awareness of this duality in the way the performance of the play gets its subtext across.

Jackie: I'm not a trained writer and my acting training was very limited as it was just two years of night classes, so I do work a lot on instinct. I'm one of those cries-at-the drop-of-a-hat sensitive women and I take on board too many worries and injustices every day of my life - I admit that. I wish I could close off sometimes and be a bit harder - though, believe me, I can be cuttingly hard when it's called for! I don't have a formula for anything, I don't want to work out how it all happens, ‘cos then it all might go away - I'm just grateful that it happens every now and again. With regards to the Scottish casting, Scott Ainslie who plays Drew is also the producer - there was no choice, we had to hire him. Personally, I'd sack him given the option. Kidding! Haha! In fact, one of the premises of my first play was the Scottish based in London theme. Yeh, it does highlight the ‘being stranded' thing. And it's also a feature in my next play, funnily enough. Hmmmm, bit of a recurrent theme, eh? Maybe I have something to acknowledge in myself?!

 

 

Mary: London Ensemble, the company responsible for presenting This to This strike me as an outstanding group of people. The production gives off integrity, and truth from start to finish. How, and when did the company form Jackie? And what are their hopes and/or plans for the future?

Jackie: This is Scott Ainslie's baby really. Scott is a believer in the idea that everyone should have a say in things and that we all have stuff to bring to the table. He's from Edinburgh, but like me, moved to London years ago. We love London. We love what it has to offer and that there is just so much going on and so many opportunities. With a London based ensemble, anything is possible as there is just so much talent. Scott and Simon Anderson, his partner in the company, want to start small and build the muscles of London Ensemble so that it can entertain and benefit as many people as it can reach and then grow. I know there are big ideas eventually and Scott has stuff in mind for the Olympics, but he knows he must have the foundations to last, as so many acting companies die out very quickly due to finances - and due to the snobbery of people in the industry who just won't go and see fringe. There is a lot of talent out there - people have to start somewhere and it doesn't always have to be at an accredited drama school. Look under some stones in the rockpool, the more interesting things aren't always on the surface!

 

 

Mary: You've also written a play called Room that was put on at another of our favourite fringe venues, The White Bear Theatre in Kennington. Could you tell us a little about that? What was it like working in the White Bear's Theatre's somewhat compressed performance area, as opposed to the intimate, but slightly larger space of the Union Theatre? Mind you, I've seen some extremely imaginative work in both venues!

Jackie: The White Bear… For a dingy wee pub in Kennington it has shown some fab work. Same as the Union Theatre. What a lovely bunch of people there too, so supportive - a really great venue. Plus, the seats are far more comfortable than those at The Gate and The Bush and it's two hundred yards from the tube station. What a gem! Yep there are cobwebs, yep it's under a railway arch. So what? It's bigger than most fringe venues, with movable seating, a good lighting rig etc. Why not be in the room with the action? The proscenium arch arrangement of the bigger theatres is usually much less interesting. The Union is a great space which deserves our support, so get down there! There is much good work going on.

Room was my first play and it had great reviews to my astonishment and I cannot tell you how many offers I had to write for major companies. I had meetings with The Royal Court, Jane Fallon who produced This Life... It all took off and it was a writer's dream. I had commissions from LWT, BBC film companies… overwhelming. Overwhelming is the word. I took on too many things and just wasn't prepared for my life to suddenly be… lonely. I did my best at the time, but I just couldn't stare at the four walls any longer and be cut off from friends. You can tell I'm glossing over this now. I am. I had a horrendous time, as I didn't want to let people down, but I just had to give it all up. No one saw me as an actor anymore - writers are more useful!

I learned so much in that time though - including that the same thing happens to loads of writers. My life is different now and I've gone from hating writing to pining for it! How strange. I feel I'm now ready for the challenge and that I know how to pace myself much better. I've tentatively accepted one offer to write a play for another company and I'll be discussing a film script with a director soon. This time round, I will be working in a way that suits me and I've found some places where I can take my laptop and get out of the house and actually speak to people on a daily basis! I'm a social person, I need life - I'm not a garret writer. By the way, take up running if you write - best thing I've ever done. Clears the head, keeps you fit, cuts down the time spent eating biccies and pouring cups of sugary coffee!

 

 

Mary: Do you have any writing projects on the go now Jackie? Is there anything you'd really like to write about in the future? And, do you ever experiment with any other style of writing, apart from play writing?

Jackie: I'm thinking about maybe a novel. I like researching, so it may actually be factual or based on fact, I don't know. But that would be on-going while I worked on other things. Ideally I'd like some acting work too! That'd be nice. I've done a version of a Greek tragedy which is far more visual and ‘bigger' than This to This, so that's sitting about waiting on money to fund it, or on a producer to take it up. Yeh, I'd like to be in it, but I'll happily hand it over. I'm quite proud of it, I did loads of background work and I think it would be a pretty good ‘star' vehicle as it's been a few years since it's been done. And there's the new work I've just accepted, though I don't want to tread on toes and discuss the theme just in case I'm not allowed to. I've got a few television script ideas too, which are very pertinent to the problems of knife-crime in cities right now. I‘d like to have someone take that idea up before the time for it passes. I don't know how pro-active I'll be in pitching these ideas though, I've never had to, I was a bit spoiled in those terms; after the success of Room, people came searching for me. It's a bit different a few years on and I'm not really sure how to approach people… I'll learn though. Whatever happens, I've been asked to do enough to keep me going for the next while and I'm looking forward to the projects.

 

 

Mary: In terms of acting…In your experience, would you say that you have enjoyed acting more in the plays you've written yourself, or those you haven't? Have you acted in both of the two plays you've written so far, Jackie? If so, do you think you'd like to act in the next play your write? Have you ever written a role with the intention of playing it yourself, or has it just turned out that way? Do you think you might like to direct? If so, do you think you could, or would like to direct a play you're acting in?

Jackie: Oh yes, I wrote those plays to act in them! Oh yes! Acting is what makes me happiest. These roles have - obviously - been written for me, so there's less of a challenge than there would be if I did someone else's work. And I do like a challenge! I much prefer working on others' work and not having to wear so many hats all the time! I used to think I'd hate to direct as I'm pretty straightforward and I thought I'd probably just tell the actor I didn't ‘believe' them and have no diplomacy. However, I did direct a showcase of scenes one time as a favour and I found I was actually very respectful and far more diplomatic than I'd expected to be! I don't know enough though. I'd have to shadow or co-direct. I really don't know enough. But I'd sure give it a go if someone would have me. As for directing anything I'm acting in, I have views on what the director asks of me and of the actors etc, but I would never direct whilst acting. How can you? Unless you direct the other scenes and you get someone else to direct your scenes. Bit messy. Nah.

 

 

Mary: This to This courageously presents, amongst many other largely neglected scenarios within the context of the human condition, the dilemma of coping with the care of a loved one who is no longer able to take care of themselves, along with all the difficult decisions that encompasses everyday. Yet the situation never becomes morbid within the context of the play, because it is always very sensitively dealt with, so that instead, we're left with an increased awareness of our own fragility. What was it like for you, writing a character who doesn't communicate through words? Was it difficult finding the right person to fulfil the part in performance? Did you and actress Rosalie Jorda, whose performance as your mother, Peggy is brilliant, spend a lot of time working closely in order to achieve the strong sense of family which you generate in your performances? Which brings me to another question Jackie, for you as a playwright…How involved are you in the casting of your plays?

Jackie: Rosalie, the actress who plays Peggy is a very sensitive, intelligent lady and we realised that from the first minute of the audition. She just ‘got it'. We did an improv type audition, as Peggy's Alzheimer's has affected her communication by this point and she has merely a few simple words and noises, and we asked the actresses to show us a development of disintegration in faculties. All of the women we saw for Peggy were fantastic, we would have employed them all if we could have! But Rosalie had a special grace. My gran had that special grace too - she sort of forgot who she'd been and grew calm. The illness is terrible for the relatives to deal with, but when it has set in, the person with it can lose their inhibitions and cares and enjoy the ‘place' they are in. It doesn't have to be morbid and it is often really funny. Our audiences have commented that they feel a bit un-politically correct for laughing at some of the things she does, but why not? It's how we cope. If we didn't laugh, we'd cry and we must find humour to be able to get through tough situations. Rosalie and I didn't really have time to do anything special together, but we did sit and chat about the things my grandparents did and how it affected movement and personality and, as I said, Rosalie just knew what to do. Rightly so, she gets a lot of lovely comments on her performance from the many audience members who are currently looking after sufferers (there are more than you think).

In terms of casting, it becomes pretty clear pretty quickly who is the right person for the job. I do like to be at the auditions though, but ultimately it's the director who gets to make the decision. It's not really my job. I think Bob made the right choices though and I think the actors in this cast definitely add dimension to what is on the page. I do my best to give even the ‘smallest role' a journey and I try to steer away from clichés - people who do bad things aren't always bad people. These guys have added the necessary warmth to their sometimes ugly characters and it makes the game far more interesting.

 

 

Mary: When you write a play Jackie, do you begin with your characters, or do you tend to approach your writing based on scenarios? Do your characters, and/or scenarios ever change greatly from how you originally wrote then, once workshops/ and or rehearsals of the play begin?

Jackie: I tend to start with characters. How can I put it… I ‘see' people. Haha! Sounds like something out of a thriller! I visualise people and what they'd do. It must annoy actors' at times, because I write in loads of stage directions and the subtext of the line, as much of my dialogue seems like banter, but there are many daggers buried in the lines. Hopefully that will help the actor see what I see. I always ask readers to read my stage directions when they start as they will then ‘get' the character faster. The personality of the protagonist etc will always have bearing on the storyline, so I think characterisation is very important. Of course, the story is too, but somehow that always comes. In fact I find it difficult to be able to whittle down the ideas I get and stick to a throughline. I think I have that thing Billy Connolly has, where his thoughts shoot off at tangents. My ideas need to be dragged back on course at times. It's something I have to work harder on. I can't really say that my storyline changes as such - I never really start out with a storyline! I just drive the car and see where it takes me each day… Yeh, I need to work harder on that aspect, I do. Structure eludes me at times and, to be honest, I don't know how I pull it all together… That's left me thinking… Worrying… Haha!

 

 

Mary: Are there any acting roles that you've always wanted to play? Would you consider writing a role you'd like to perform, and for inclusion within the context of your own play?

Jackie: I've always liked Antigone. I'm too old now though, aw. The Greek women are fab characters and any of them would be a joy to play. Although I knew I'd be Jen in this play, she's not my favourite character. I didn't really write ‘for me' so to speak, I just wrote someone I could play who would match up with Scott's character, Drew. As a writer/actor, you can be tagged with the egotist label, so I think subconsciously I hold myself back in terms of the type of roles I write for myself. As working class Scottish, the parts I get seen for have tended to be the usual drug-taking Glasgow prostitute cliché which, I have to say, has begun to get me down. I am not the person people think I am, but it's very difficult to bust out of the mould people have set for you way back at the beginning of your career. I would love people to see past what they have seen me do already and it does seem to be picking up as I start looking older. But I would have a real fight in my head to write a play from scratch with a blow-away lead part for myself. However, the Greek I've just translated has that blow-away lead - though Euripides wrote it first! Actually, he didn't… he just re-wrote it too.

 

 

Mary: In This to This , the character you play, Jen, comes across as being a realist, someone who faces up to life's realities, whereas, her husband Drew, has a tendency to escape. Is there much of you in Jen, Jackie? Do you tend to base any of your characters or their characteristics on those of people you've known? For example, I'm in the process of writing my first novel now, having only written short stories before, and I've found that, although at first I thought my protagonist was me, I realised as I went along that she'd begun to take on characteristics that weren't me, and eventually, I realised she is actually her own person.

Jackie: I'm sure you started with much of yourself, but it's surprising how many shared experiences we have and how those experiences which are also others' experiences all merge. The line becomes blurred. I'm often asked if my characters are me… what an interesting life I would be leading! As I said, I am a thief. I will find scenarios to fit the personality of the character I'm writing for. I've never written a novel and I expect it must be a heck of a journey for both writer and character. Both would develop. That's the way it should be. We change. We begin to see ourselves differently. People's opinions of us change. Our opinions of things change... I always begin by basing my characters on existing people and move it on from there. That way, they ‘breathe' from the beginning.

 

 

Mary: Do you experiment with other types of writing, rather than play writing? Is there any type of writing you'd like to try that you haven't already? Would you ever consider writing a screenplay for one of your plays? Seems to me that This to This has definite filmic possibilities. Conversely, would you ever consider taking the play onto the Edinburgh Fringe? I often hear of, or see comedies that have been on at the Festival. But I have to say tha t I never seem to see many memorable dramas that have had runs there.

Jackie: When I was younger, I'd do the whole teenage poetry business and I loved short story writing at school. I had great English teachers and my secondary school placed great emphasis on learning the basics, including Latin, which was a great foundation. Why isn't it still a staple? It's the key to our wonderful language.

Room, my first play, was a comedy and it was produced by Riverside in Edinburgh and sold out there. They wanted to transfer it back to London, but the actors involved, including myself, had other commitments so it wasn't possible. I was offered screenplays and films from that. However, as I said, being untrained I found it tough to cope with the amount of work I had agreed to do and sank into the mud. That's why I've decided to start again with plays… a gentler re-introduction to the writing process. I think my strongest work will turn out to be for television though… the dialogue comes easily to me for some reason. I will need to be guided through the structural/formulaic side of things though and hopefully I'll get that help in the future.

 

 

Mary: What writers or playwrights would you say have had an impact on your own writing, positive or negative Jackie? Are there any actors and/or directors, whose work you feel may have been influential on your own?

Jackie: I love Shakespeare - I laugh out loud at the silly things the boys get up to - dressed as women dressed as men! And his descriptive language captures me every time. But I wouldn't say he was an influence on my work. I have eclectic taste and I intend never to have a ‘style'. I like too many things to have someone in particular influence me. I don't read play after play by the same author. I'll just pick up what interests me at the time, or what can teach me something. Although I write very modern dialogue mostly, my favourite theatre is often Wilde and Coward as their insults are just… unforgettable. I should read much more than I do actually… I've kind of slowed down on that front. I also love the nineteenth century women novelists - brave women, sneakily penning work under pseudonyms… very observational, very astute, very funny.

Juliet Stevenson is my favourite actress. On stage and on screen, she is utterly watchable. She should be doing more work - I miss her! She is professional, skilled, thoughtful, beautiful, funny, classical and contemporary at the same time… I'm enthralled by her when she is acting. I am very jealous of her ability. That's an actor with aura.

 

 

Mary: Do you have any dream projects Jackie? Anything you've always wanted to do, but haven't gotten around to yet?

Jackie: I've not written enough yet… I just want to get through some more work to get the practice right now. I need to prove some things to myself and learn much, much more. Then I can maybe sit back and assess things.

 

 

Mary: What can we look forward to seeing you in next Jackie? What acting projects are next?

Jackie: You can see me in an episode of Doctors coming up in September, haha! As for anything else, who knows? I hope this project will bring some more acting work. We'll have to wait and see… It ain't up to me!

 

 

Mary: Many thanks for doing this interview Jackie! I really appreciate it, and I know our readers will too! Please keep us posted of any and all future developments with you, and London Ensemble! All the best…

Jackie: Mary, it's been a good process – you've made me think a lot about things and I hope it's not all too vague for you. I'm a newbie writer and I have a lot to learn, but you gotta start somewhere and the good thing with writing is that you can start at any age! Good luck with your own work – big task! And it's a privilege to be the first female playwright to be interviewed! We'll keep you posted with the next project for the company.

www.london-ensemble.co.uk

 

Union Theatre

204 Union Street

SE1 OLX

Box Office 020 7261 9876

www.uniontheatre.org

Tuesday – Saturday 7:30pm, Matinee June 17 th 2pm

Tickets - £10.50 (8.50) Tues. – Thurs. £12.50 (10.50) Fri. - Sat.

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